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Recently I received a ‘please don’t post’ comment from a semi-regular reader that was well-intended but nonetheless questioned my sanity in being in a relationship with a bar boy. Even if it is with Noom, my bar boy friend and current love of my life. His concern was that at worst I was being taken advantage of, at best I was mistakenly trying to buy love. I explained my views on the subject, he wrote back with his concerns. I’m not sure if either of us convinced the other of our respective stances, but it was a polite exchange and I was touched that he’d taken the time to address the subject, worried about someone he doesn’t even know. Plus, it gave me a subject to post about. Win-win in my book. So for the record, yes, I did fall in love with a bar boy. And yes, my wallet has never been the same.
Still, while money is an integral part of my relationship with Noom, I’m not buying love. I’m buying sex. The love is just a frequent flyer milage bonus. When I met Noom, I wasn’t looking for love. I wasn’t looking for a relationship. I wasn’t even looking for friendship. I was looking for sex. In Bangkok, one of the best places to look for sex is a gay gogo bar. Conversely, a gay gogo bar in Thailand is the worst place to look for love, friendship, or a relationship. A gay gogo bar in Bangkok isn’t even a good place to go for a drink.
Friends keep reminding me that it really isn’t all about me. So let’s suspend disbelief and pretend they are right for a moment. When you work in a gay gogo bar in Bangkok, it’s all about money. You may make friends with your co-workers. You may, if you are gay, find a relationship there too. With a co-worker. Guys new to the gogo bar world might think they will find love with a rich farang who will take care of their every need, but after a week, after some farang has promised them the moon and then not even forked up with a decent tip, they learn better. Bar boys quickly get schooled that farang lie. A lot of farang learn that bar boys lie too; farang just aren’t quite as quick on the uptake.
Noom was not an newbie to the bar world when I met him. And I can guarantee you that when we met what he found attractive about me was my wallet and my willingness to open it. Often. So yeah, it was love at first sight: he saw a fat wallet filled with baht and fell heads over heels in love with it. Just his luck, it was attached to me. Country song writers love to tell you that love hurts. It doesn’t. It costs. And when Noom met me, his intention was to be the one collecting those fees. So he was looking for cash, I was looking for sex. And we fell in love. Noom fell in love with my wallet. I fell in love with his hot body. Romance was not part of the equation. Cupid was elsewhere busily screwing up someone else’s life.
Fast forward a hell of a lot of years and Noom is still in love with my wallet. And I’m still in love with his hot body. The difference between now and then is that our roles have grown beyond those two initial attributes that we each respectively found so alluring. It’s no longer just about sex and money. Now, in his words, “It real.”
A particularly vile little creature who has since disappeared back into his lonely life once started a thread on one of the gay Thailand message boards taking men to task who had ‘paid’ relationships instead of ‘genuine’ relationships, as though he’d ever actually experienced either. That’s a nice distinction if you ignore the fact that all relationships at some point involve money. And a one night stand, such as picking a guy up at a disco – whether paid for or not – does not a relationship make, a truth that had him confused. But then neither does a one-time off from a gay gogo bar no matter how much your boy du jour tells you he loves you. But trying to claim that a relationship entered into on a paid basis is not genuine just doesn’t work. At least not if that encounter grows, evolves over time, and becomes something the extends beyond the dictates of its original parameters. Which is the even trade of cash for sex.
If you are lucky – or unlucky depending on how you view it – that business transaction may become something more. At some point the cash for sex transaction may turn into a genuine relationship. Both money and sex may still be a part of your dealings with each other, but they fade into the background. It’s no longer just about money or just about sex. Real human emotions come into play. And the next thing you know, you’re in a relationship. And a genuine one at that.
Ours may not be the type of relationship that society approves of. And maybe my perspective is distorted. But I don’t see a big difference between what I have with Noom and the relationships of my friends. Not when you boil it down to the basics. Both are a mutually beneficial loving relationship based on trust, respect, and a concern for the other person’s well-being. I think there are a hell of a lot of people out there who’d kill for that. I only have to pay for it.
And there’s the rub.
Money makes the world go around but it also defines people’s views on a lot of things. When it’s coupled with sex, it means prostitution. Which carries a lot of negative connotations. People have a difficult time wrapping their mind around the idea that anyone could have a genuine relationship with a prostitute. And I get that. That may not be a relationship for you. Cool. But anyone entering into a healthy relationship does so in the pursuit of happiness. If your relationship makes you happy, does it really matter then how it began? Does what either of you do for a living really matter? And why is who is getting what from whom of anybody’s concern?
I think the questionable part of our relationship isn’t that Noom is a bar boy but rather that we live worlds apart and only spend a quarter of the year together at best. The distance not the dollars bothers me the most. But then I would not be happy living in Thailand, even with Noom, and he wouldn’t be happy living in the U.S. either. But it’s the money that others tend to zero in on.
And I get that too. There’s far too many stories out there about foolish farang who were taken for a ride by a bar boy. And not the kind they wanted. It’s far too easy to put blinders on when a hot young guy shows you attention. The streets of Thailand are littered with the bloody mangled carcasses of farang who fell in love with a Thai bar boy only to find out the boy’s sole interest was in the size of the farang’s wallet. Entering into an extended relationship with a bar boy and not being aware of the risk is foolish. So I understand the concern. And appreciate where it is coming from.
On the other hand, maybe its a question of how you value money. I like the stuff myself. But its an ends to a means. In and of itself money has no value. And the paltry sums I’ve thrown Noom’s way add up to little in perspective. What I’ve received in return has a much higher value. I’ve been spending my money on sex. And getting love, respect, and friendship in return.
I no longer tip Noom. I take care of his financial needs, those out of his reach off of what he can make from his normal intake of tips. Within reason. At least so far. When I switched over from tipping him based on the number of nights he spent with me, we did not discuss the change. He didn’t question it or ask where his tip was. He trusted that whatever it was I was doing was to his benefit, that his needs would be taken care of out of the respect and love I have for him. Noom too understands the true value of money. Which is pretty amazing, or at least unusual, for a Thai bar boy. He knows the payoff isn’t about what I have in my wallet, but what I have in my heart.
The cost of love isn’t about the impact it has on your bank account. It’s expense is valued by what it costs you as a person. If you are emotionally savvy, financially you’ll be in the black. And if at the end of the day, regardless of the cost, you are a happier or better person it was worth whatever currency you paid in.
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lukylok said:
You have put words on my feelings and I am grateful for that.
The relationship I have with the barboy who is the present boy of my life is the same as yours. We never talk money, he never asks for anything, but he trusts me to meet what exceeds his own earnings, and of course pick all the tabs while I am there. And we are both happy, even if we are only together about 3 months a year. And I don’t think it’d work on a permanent basis. What more can we ask ? Society(?) may not approve, but I couldn’ care less.
Bangkokbois said:
Thanks Luky, I have a strong feeling neither you nor I am all that unique.
I think farang need to be aware of the potential of being scammed by a bar boy, but at the same time need to remain open to the possibility of a real, caring relationship.
They do happen.
And then it’s not just about the money.
Or the sex.
Glenn said:
You can’t take it with you, right? So you might as well enjoy your life. That’s more or less how I view what I spend as well. I am generally pretty frugal but like to have a good time on vacation. Not sure I am the kind of person who would get entangled in the sort of relationship you have, but that’s just a personal preference. As long as you’re not spending yourself onto welfare I don’t see how anyone can really say anything.
I always view whatever I spend on the boys as a simple redistribution of wealth from the first world to the third…a foreign aid program. They have something I want, and they want money. I try not to think too much about the ultimate possible consequences of sex work and how it can fuck up a lot of people. And I try to always treat the guys with as much respect as I expect in return.
Bangkokbois said:
Good attitude Glenn. I just wish the IRS would understand that bar boy tips are charitable contributions!
Hendrikbkk said:
What I like about your writings is your honesty and down to earth approach, also in this article.
I wrote you will not live in Thailand and Noom doesn’t want to live in the USA, doesn’t limit that the relationship? And what are your thoughts for the future, continue like this?
Bangkokbois said:
Thank you Hendrik.
I don’t know if it is absence makes the heart grow fonder, or with a LTR you don’t have to put up with the other guys shit on a daily basis, but I think that we only spend a quarter of the year together is a good thing. As much as I miss him when I’m back home, we both have our own lives and interests and when we do get back together we have lots to talk about and tend to make the most of the time we have together. I like that. I like how I feel when I finally see him again. I’d lose that if we lived together.
At some point he won’t be a bar boy any longer, and we’ve talked about those days. For now, we still plan on being together whenever I’m in Thailand. It’d be nice if at some point he could come visit in the U.S., but he’d not be happy doing so permanently, So future-wise I think we’ll continue as we are and continue to grow closer. But who knows? I’m not ruling anything out.
John said:
It’s funny how it’s considered quite respectable for one to pay for certain kinds of intimate relationships, but not others. For example, twice a month, I pay another gay man $175 to spend about an hour alone with me. I cherish the time, because no one intrudes and he concentrates on meeting my needs. Sometimes I laugh, at other times I cry, but no matter what, he takes care of me and is unfailingly supportive. I’ve told him — only half jokingly — that our relationship is the most successful one I’ve ever had with another gay guy. I wouldn’t trade it for the world, and I hope it will continue. My friends and family all know about this relationship, and they all know that it’s for pay. Yet no one has any kind of moral problem with it at all.
But then I guess that’s the difference between bar boys and psychiatrists.
Bangkokbois said:
Nicely done John!
Um, but you do know that if you see a bar boy often enough a psychiatrist is no longer needed, right?
🙂
John said:
Heh. Knowing me, I’d need the psychiatrist so I could discuss the issues arising in my relationship with the bar boy. =)
Bangkokbois said:
Wait! I got this one!
You tink too much!
Feel free to calculate what you would have paid a psychiatrist over the next ten years and forward it to my Paypal account John.
🙂
mark said:
Great article as always. I wonder what warnings Nooms’ friends give him….
Bangkokbois said:
Thanks Mark, and good point!
I’ve a strong feeling the bad farang warnings are as abundant amongst the bar boys as are the bad bar boy stories among farang.
Thank god he doesn’t listen to his friends!
Andrew said:
It’s hard enough for two people who really connect with each other and make each other as happy as you guys do, don’t listen to the naysayers I say.
Bangkokbois said:
Thanks Andrew, I will ignore them on your advice.
🙂
I’m pretty solid in my relationship by now so I don’t question it as I once did.
I think Alex’s comment “Those with the rose-tinted glasses beg to get burnt, while those who hardly find any potential partner acceptable tend to miss out and lead lonely lives” is important though for those entering into a new relationship. There are scammers out there, so you do need to be aware. But closing yourself off out of fear of being taken is equally as bad.
Alex said:
Great post again, and certainly one of the most balanced and realistic ones I’ve ever read on this subject. Those with the rose-tinted glasses beg to get burnt, while those who hardly find any potential partner acceptable tend to miss out and lead lonely lives. Both sucks.
A romantic relationship is quite a complex give-and-take affair, no matter if your partner is a bar boy or a bank(st)er, and each partner has to know for himself if he gets enough in return. If that’s not the case, run. If you’re happy, stay. I think it’s really that easy.
Thus far, I’ve never had a boyfriend who’s a bar boy, but I do know some bar boys I consider real friends. Real friends in the same sense you consider Noom your real boyfriend: I have the feeling that I get as much or even more from them in return than I do for them. They might feel the same the other way round, and in this case it’s just perfect for all of us. That’s why, for me, your relationship with Noom makes perfect sense the way you’re blogging about it.
I also agree with your comment that a long-distance relationship isn’t necessarily such a bad thing. Okay, it’s bad if you can only come to Thailand twice a year for 1-2 weeks each. In your case, however, you and Noom can spend a lot of time together. Over all, probably more quality time than many couples living together full-time.
Please keep us posted, and thanks again for a great read! 🙂
Bangkokbois said:
Thank you Alex.
Wise words, and I think you hit it perfectly: I too believe I get more from Noom that he gets from me. And really, whether it’s a friendship or something more, when both parties are satisfied with what they gain in their lives from knowing the other . . . what more can anyone ask or expect?
Yraen said:
Thank you. I couldn’t have said that better.
I am one of those who did have a ‘worker’ for a bf. For the short time we had, it was wonderful – and broke my heart when it ended.
The current Thai bf relationship is more than similar to yours. We see each other in one city or the other for 4-6 weeks at a time, usually 2-3 times a year and we talk every day. More, we enjoy the comfort and companionship of having a reliable partnership that (so far) has lasted 7 years.
Like you, we are now starting to think about the future for each of us, without any limitations.
But you expressed the whole relationship/concept much more eloquently than I could. Thanks again.
Yraen
Bangkokbois said:
Thanks for your comment Yraen.
I’m beginning to learn that there are a hell of a lot of us in similar relationships. That has surprised me; all you ever seem to hear on the forums is about duds, scammers, and those who only want access to your bank account.
So thanks for sharing.
And congrats on the 7 years too!
Carlos said:
It has been an extraordinaire and enjoyable ride through your Notes “I fell in love with a thai bar boy” it has been weeks of reading, fun, memories and I must say of learning from your insides. Excellent writing and good sense of humor.
I am not strange to Thailand, since 1991 I have visited 10 times. Being a Latin man, always in hiding in my country, I still can’t believe how extremly naive I was those first years despite having a “godfather” friend from New York and despite having read The Men of Thailand book, Midway magazine, you named. It took me time to adjust. Those were the days of Barbieri, my gogo bar of choise, Lex, as well as those for locals in Saphan Kwai which we visited whith the bf of my american friend, Aladin, Adam, Hipoddrome. So I was a butterfly flying high those days. And yes, years after I fell deeply in love in Jomthien beach with a very handsome Chiang Mai boy , from that moment he accompanied me everytime I was in Thailand, those were the most happy days of my life. So there are also some small similarities here and there in your blog that gave me flashbacks of happy memories and events passed.
That relationship is these days more friendship than love and I think he being a gay man has accepted the fact. I hope. I had many dreams those years all seems reachable yet reality also was there every day inside my heart.
Thanks so much for an extrordinare ride.
Bangkokbois said:
Thank you Carlos, nice to hear I’ve stirred some peasant memories for you, as you just did for me.
I think a lot of us relied on The Men of Thailand in those days. And I sure relied on Barbieri!
I wonder if after butterflying for many years if perhaps we are not more susceptible to falling in love. The Thai guys sure make it easy. I’ve always enjoyed Thailand, but having Noom to return to makes it even better, so your comment struck a chord. Am I understanding it correctly that you are still friends with your Chiang Mai boy?
Carlos said:
Coorect, We are friends and stay in contact occasionally, not lovers anymore, I have encourage him to look for a thai man who can share live with him, I just can’t as I am not going to live there and can,t promise him to go every year (in fact is almost five years last time I visited) and yes I easily fall in love specially in Thailand. For him this is a difficult choise, he isn’t a bar boy, live with his parents which he introduce me, his father smile was one of acceptance a very sweet man, his mother was the opposite, I feeled embarrased looking at her, she seems to me mathriarcal, in control.
Thanks for your thoughts
Bangkokbois said:
Thanks Carlos, it’s good to know you’ve stayed friends and are still a part of each other’s lives.
I think like with most Asian cultures, mama is the true power in any household. I guess I lucked out that Noom only has his dad.
jeffreymonsoon said:
Thanks for another intelligent and thought provoking article. God I love reading this blog.
Bangkokbois said:
Thank you Jeffrey!
xiandarkthorne said:
I look at it much more simply (because I’m Chinese) –
Psychatrist – 2,000 Baht an hour
Barboy – 2,500 Baht a night inclusive of bar tax and one drink each for him and me
No question which one gives me better value per Baht.
(I’m basing my rates on Malaysian ones calculated in Thai Baht)
Bangkokbois said:
I think you just hit on a good justification for taking bar boy tips off on your taxes XD!
SKY said:
What a wonderful posting! I just discovered your blog and must compliment you on the wonderful job you have done.
When I read this particular posting, I just have to write to you…
I am in the same situation and the only difference is I am an Asian/Chinese in my late 50s. After two long term relationships (nearly 10 years each), I find my present situation the best arrangement.
When I first met Ott, he was my masseur in an up-market spa in Chiang Mai. Then only 21 years of age and cute in every way. I think it was after my 3 massage sessions in the spa with him that I asked him to do an outcall session. I did that after I found out how much he was paid for my session in the spa… would you believe not even 5% of what I paid to the spa. No wonder he was so happy with my tip after each session. I rather give the whole amount to him and do away with the spa ambiance and whatever. Anyway it was during one of our session in the hotel that I cheekily asked him to do the massage in the nude. He smilingly said no but then in the middle of the session he took off all his clothes. And when that massage was over he surprised me by kissing me… then you can imagine the rest.
That was nearly 8 years ago and we meet up whenever I am in Chiang Mai. As I visit Chiang mai about 5-6 times a year, each trip has been a wonderful, passionate, loving and relaxing experience..
Even after all these years, he still looks like an novice monk in his teens as he always has the same haircut. He stopped taking money for his massage service from me but I do pay for his english lessons, and I do give him some pocket money whenever I am in Chiang Mai. Now finally early this year he told me he found a girlfriend and wants to marry her. Yes! He’s straight and I am so happy for him. I have the feeling I have a friend for life.
Bangkokbois said:
Thanks Sky, and welcome to the club.
🙂
I’m amazed at how prevalent the older foreigner, younger – often straight – Thai relationship is and how often, regardless of how it begins, it becomes a true friendship that has deep meaning to both parties. I think that is unique to Thailand, or at least so much more common there.
Glad to hear you’ve been enjoying my blog. Thanks for taking the time to share your story and I wish you and Ott (and his wife) the best of luck!
SKY said:
Regarding your reply…
Yes! The scenario is more common in Thailand but surely not unique.
I also have a similiar 4 years “friendship” with 25 years old Chinese in ShenZhen, China. The major different is that we both communicate better as we both speak Mandarin than my situation in Chiang Mai as I do not speak Thai at all! (Shame on me as I have been to Thailand since the early 80s).
Since I met him in 2009, he somehow managed to get married and fathered a child in his native village of Hubei. The usual traditional family obligation or as the local put it, a filial son’s duty. I got to know Tong when he worked as a security guard in the office building next to the hotel I was staying in ShenZhen. There’s hardly any exchange of cash except me picking up the bills whenever we are together. Afterall a monthly salary of US$200 does not go very far! I did presented him with a US$500 wedding gift and many gifts whenever I am in ShenZhen every second month. So he does see me more often than his family whom he visits once a year during the Chinese New Year or the Spring Festival period
Is there LOVE? Maybe a little but definately more LUST! But more companionship and friendship. Basically he’s just proud to have a foreign friend and be seen in my company. But I think he’s basically gay but not completely in denial. We discussed seriously on this matter once but his conclusion is that he has “feeling” for me, and if that’s gay, he’s fine with it! Homosexuality in China is an interesting subject matters. It’s not uncommon for bromance to grow into sex.
Anyway, I think you did mentioned in one of your postings that NOT being cheap, BE good company for the boys and HAVING a positive outlook in life will definately help one gain “friendship” in the most unlikely places.
Do keep up the good work, BangkokBois
PS Actually Tong did asked me for money once, he wanted a Singapore dollar bill to keep in his wallet!!!
Bangkokbois said:
I think you are right Sky, much more common in Thailand but surely not unique. Part of that I think is outside of the west labels are not so fixed so bromances, regardless of the ages involved, do often turn to sex. And it sounds like you have the right attitude to have that happen.
Thanks again for sharing!
cody said:
thanks for contributing a great foundation article on building such a successful relationship. i have shared it with friends who question what i am doing and if any real interpersonal connections are possible.
while the limited time together has an emotional price, perhaps it also adds financial independence and maintains individuality that i think is critical to long term stability. even if you could pluck noom up and transplant him to the alien world called the usa, i’d be terrified that his strength as a separate, successful young man would be severely challenged by what some people consider the superior amerikan culture. you seem to have found a great balance in financial support with independence. i think an upheaval/transplant would threaten this, too.
i am still juggling that one–being financially supportive without creating complete dependency. any wise thoughts on getting to a healthy, stable, money dynamic
with a thai bf?
Bangkokbois said:
I don’t think I’ve ever specifically considered the financial independance part of our relationship before Cody, but you raise a very valid point. That part of him is a large part of what I respect. So it is integral to our relationship. And I agree that plucking him out of Thailand could very well destroy that part. So thanks for your thoughts.
As for advice, I can’t take credit for what we have created that seems to work so well, it’s been a mutual effort. I’m not interested in being Noom’s meal ticket – supplimenting what he earns so he has an easier and better life is where my wallet comes in. But then he has a lot of pride and doesn’t want to be a kept boy either. I think if he did not have that drive I’d probably not be as attracted to him. That part of our relationship is the least “Thai,” it’s a dynamic evident all over the world. It’s only when you throw the bar boy part into the equation that people begin questioning the relationship. So friend, boyfriend, partner, whatever first – bar boy second – is a good way to consider whatever comes up in your relationship. Him being a bar boy is, after all, only a job. It’s not his entire identity.
James said:
A great article as usual. I always enjoy reading your insights on gay Thailand, being a regular visitor and a once long term resident in the kingdom. I read with interest and did keep an open mind about the money factor in your relationship and agree with your basic tenets that for the Thai boys its about money and the farang about sex, at least initially. However, in a relationship one would hope that other deeper attributes would overtake both of these. My question to you and, I believe the test of a real caring relationship, is that if one or either of these factors – money and sex, were completely removed from the equation, would the relationship survive? Hypothetically, and God forbid, but if you went broke and could not afford to be so generous would Noom forget about you? Similarly and also God forbid, if for whatever reason Noom could not offer you sex or the quality and/or quantity diminished would you terminate the relationship? Food for thought and I would be interested in your comments.
James
Bangkokbois said:
Thanks James, but geeze could you not have asked a more simple question like whether or not you can off a waiter on Soi 4?
🙂
I have thought of this before, and even have had some discussion on the topic with Noom. Our relationship has grown beyond the customer/bar boy paradigm. We’re friends now. With benefits. Part of that relationship is that we both take care of each other as we can. So your premise is unlikely in that neither of us would withhold money or sex (respectively) from the other as those are the things (among others) that we do for each other. Mmmmmm, it’s not so much about sex and money but more about providing for each other; it’s the reason more than the actual act that is important. Does that make sense?
But lets assume I go broke (you bastard!) Honestly, I would not fly to Thailand for a holiday if that was all I could afford to do. I’d sit at home crying from my loss and send that cash to Noom instead. I’d feel a greater obligation to help him than I would about taking a trip. If I could not afford to do either I don’t think it would be the end of our relationship. We’d both wait for better times. If that never happened, if things never improved financially for me, that would eventually end our relationship other than possibly staying in touch much as it would with any friendship where distance separates you and keeps you from ever seeing each other.
On the other end, the only scenario I can think of that would put an end to sex is if Noom became radioactive. Would I continue to be in the same type of relationship with him if that happened and sex was no longer on the table? Yup, I would. I love having sex with him. But it is not the only thing or even the most important thing in our relationship. That would mean some careful arrangements would need to be made. I’d still be sexually active during my SE Asian journeys but would have to do that with an eye toward not hurting his feelings. I’ll have to do a post that touches on that a bit as it has kinda come up before.
Jim said:
Wonderfully written and inciteful. A real joy to read.
Bangkokbois said:
Mahalos Jim.